Curse

GrimEye · Jan 03, 2008, 08:14 AM // 08:14

If people dont use it, or never use it, why do they whine about it?

Point is, if you're are doing guardians and vanquishing, and you only get 1 or 2 more people - if you're lucky - in the party, Ursan becomes a good tool. If you run only with H/H, it is a necessary tool.

And people shouldn't be be loose throwing words around like "stupid". Im so tired of people projecting the image everyone is a noob and stupid except them.

Actually, if you dont use it or never use it, and you are whining from something you never have experience with, it just shows people are riding the whining bandwagon. I find it funny that people who have stopped playing guildwars still have opinions about guildwars. Move on, please.

My take.

upier · Jan 03, 2008, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Given amount of people here who say they dont use it and hate it, i wonder what made those long threads about nerfing it so long.

Keeping that in mind - you'd imagine that mesmers and assassins are the new PvE meta!
I wonder how many of the Ursan-haters stand in DoA shouting at the people who want to join their parties "OMG111!!! You're not a mesmer!1 GTFO!1!!".

Ephidel · Jan 03, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Adding support to the nerf Ursan brigade!

The skill is killing what economy the game had left, much like another bear-related object, but I won't get into that for everyone else's sake. Everyone's getting stuff and they don't have to work for it. I don't mind a shortcut, but this is way too much and it's imbalancing the game.

From a business standpoint, I can put it this way too.

More people using UB = more people finishing the game faster = more people getting bored with the game = more people leaving the game because of boredom = less people interested in Guild Wars = less people buying Guild Wars 2.

That help, ANet? You are going to be needing the money. Nerfing this skill only benefits you.

Also, too many people saying "Ursanway", and that's annoying.

zwei2stein · Jan 03, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Keeping that in mind - you'd imagine that mesmers and assassins are the new PvE meta!
I wonder how many of the Ursan-haters stand in DoA shouting at the people who want to join their parties "OMG111!!! You're not a mesmer!1 GTFO!1!!".

Huh?

Anyway, sweet irony is that mesmers, well ... mesmers turn out to be THE worst class to run ursan with.

Warriors have armor, just like Paragons and Rangers do.
Sins have inbuilt emanagement, just as Dervishes and have a bit of armor.
Eles have their high energy cap, Necromances have their SR, imba as usual ...

What do mesmers have that makes ursan pugs to pick them over 10/8 wammo ursan? Nothing, except guilt from pressing reject button.

Avarre · Jan 03, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

What do mesmers have that makes ursan pugs to pick them over 10/8 wammo ursan? Nothing, except guilt from pressing reject button.

That's part of the delicious irony. The classes that were the most powerful in PvE received the biggest buff from the addition of PvE skills - which throws out the possibility that they were added to balance the classes in PvE.

Washi · Jan 03, 2008, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

If you run only with H/H, it is a necessary tool.

You obviously have no idea what you're talkin about. Ursan is only good if you have few players in a party using it. As a lone bear you just make no difference.

99% of my pve play is me + my friend + 6 heroes. What good would 2 bears do in that party? I as a ranger can spread -10 degen on everything, daze, interupt, blind and use imba skills like pain inverter or finish him. I can adapt to different areas and specific bosses. I guarantee you that my ranger is much more effective than a single bear.

A group of 6 ursans and 2 monks is overpowered and makes everything so easy that the game makes no sense. That is why I believe this skill hurts the game. One or two bears in a party are totally balanced and are actually bad choice if you know how to play your profession.

GrimEye · Jan 03, 2008, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Good point ephidel. But here's some of my thought:

When one say "killing the economy", does this mean bringing down the prices of items? Is this a bad? On the onset of every new campaign or expansion, prices get insanely high, but eventually settled down to a reasonable prices.

Item's prices going down has more benefits than drawbacks. Only players who specialized in merchantile and players who have the leet items but dont want anyone else to have them seem to find problems that prices are low. And, of course, farming bots too.

Another point, if you are player who only have 2 or 3 hours a day to play, then Ursan is a good thing.

But, of those 2 or 3 hours, so to feel good about yourself that you're not using ursan, you spent those time looking for group. At the end of 3 hours, you feel good coz you did not use ursan, though you have accomplish nothing. When you ask guildies for help, and they use ursan, one dont say anything.

At the moment, people are just riding the Ursan bandwagon - on both sides. But to make ursan nerfed to death to the point of being useless is silly.

Then people will whined about how many useless skills there are in GW.

My take.

dont feel no pain · Jan 03, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

I have never considered capping it because i like my skillbar already, and theres alot of other ways to own certain areas

GrimEye · Jan 03, 2008, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Washi:

Hayz. Never speak what you have never experience. I played URSAN H/H and there is a difference. I was able to solo H/H most tyria HM mission because of URSAN. And done them without URSAN.

I never thought I could solo H/H Thunderhead Keep HM but I did, and the URSAN skill made the difference. As with other Tyrian guardian mission. Of course, if you have Ursan r5 below, I would have agreed with you a bit.

Anyway. here is a question for you: how much nerfed you want Ursan to get? You want it so no one would use it again?

dont feel no pain · Jan 03, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

you needed ursan to do thunderhead keep in HM with h/h

LOL

upier · Jan 03, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Huh?

Anyway, sweet irony is that mesmers, well ... mesmers turn out to be THE worst class to run ursan with.

Warriors have armor, just like Paragons and Rangers do.
Sins have inbuilt emanagement, just as Dervishes and have a bit of armor.
Eles have their high energy cap, Necromances have their SR, imba as usual ...

What do mesmers have that makes ursan pugs to pick them over 10/8 wammo ursan? Nothing, except guilt from pressing reject button.

The thingy I was going at with my post is how everyone bitches and moans on how Ursan is insanely overpowered, how it's is trashing the game and it's giving the bad players the ability to play this game on the demanded level without actually getting better yet at the same time - a lot of these players don't have a problem running 3 SH/SF eles, 3 necros, aggro-taking-tanks - and will gladly refuse to accept anyone that gets the job done - BUT isn't as powerful as the best option.
That was my point with the assassin/mesmer-PvE-meta. Since everyone is so against running what is one of the most insane things in the game - you'd expect that everyone is running mesmers or assassins only. Since these guys sure as hell don't have the overpowered built into them in PvE!

GrimEye · Jan 03, 2008, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

you needed ursan to do thunderhead keep in HM with h/h

LOL

Im not as good as you, pain.

dont feel no pain · Jan 03, 2008, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

Im not as good as you, pain.

well you dont have to be good, the trick is you just camp at the king and have a ballanced build

, ursan may be usful in some HM spots but thunderhead keep it realy isn't needed.

Sab's 3 necro works great too.

I personaly always run this hero setup:

3 Mo/me

10 divine favor
16 smiting prayers
rest on inspiration

[skill]Signet of Judgment[/skill]

[skill]Bane Signet[/skill]
[skill]Reversal of Damage[/skill]
[skill]Zealot's Fire[/skill] or [skill]Smite Hex[/skill] or
[skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill]

[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

When just h/h take a healer hench (and mabye a prot hench) and the rest is up to you

When i play duo with my mate we run 5 of these and 1 holy haste LoD Hero.
I know it looks dumb but it works in alot of places, especially dungeons

i think i may post this in the heroes section if anyone finds it as effective

GrimEye · Jan 03, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by dont feel no pain

well you dont have to be good, the trick is you just camp at the king and have a ballanced build

, ursan may be usful in some HM spots but thunderhead keep it realy isn't needed.

Sab's 3 necro works great too.

Pain, what's the point? Almost a lot people know the trick. You done it with SAB. I done it Ursan. Someone have done it in balance. Someone H/H it with others.

But you find it condescendingly funny that I done it in ursan. I dont know why. You use one ready-made build, I use another ready-made build.

I was merely pointing washi's misconception a lone bear does not make a difference. In my experience, it does.

And, Im not exactly an Ursan die-hard fan. I enjoy playing with other real players, if I can find some. I use SAB, I use my own concoction build, I use cookie-cutter. I use what works and what is appropriate. Ursan is just one of the many options.

My real questions is, how far you want Ursan nerfed?

dont feel no pain · Jan 03, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

Pain, what's the point? Almost a lot people know the trick. You done it with SAB. I done it Ursan. Someone have done it in balance. Someone H/H it with others.

But you find it condescendingly funny that I done it in ursan. I dont know why. You use one ready-made build, I use another ready-made build.

I was merely pointing washi's misconception a lone bear does not make a difference. In my experience, it does.

And, Im not exactly an Ursan die-hard fan. I enjoy playing with other real players, if I can find some. I use SAB, I use my own concoction build, I use cookie-cutter. I use what works and what is appropriate. Ursan is just one of the many options.

My real questions is, how far you want Ursan nerfed?

i said sab's is good, but i didnt use sabs

i went balanced, i also take back the LOL i was in a happy mood XD

TyrianFury · Jan 03, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

I only have used it a few times, mainly in hard mode dungeon in gwen. Forget difficulty for now but if it can make you clear a dungeon in under 2 hours rather 4-5 then I'm in. People don't always have 4 hours to burn in one sitting so at least this is provides an option.

Avarre · Jan 03, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

My real questions is, how far you want Ursan nerfed?

Ooh, can I answer?

I want Ursan removed. Partially because of it's ridiculously power nature, and how easy it makes the game. But also because of how it overrides Guild Wars' concept of designing skillbars that work. It removes a great deal of the depth of the game.

I'd be willing to accept overpowered PvE skills that were actually skills on a bar (Luxon/Kurzick/Sunspear skills). They don't help the game, but at least they still fit the idea of the character skillbar - and if people want to use superskills to get them through the game easier, I'd rather see that kind of thing. They can also be used to make the game more fun in that you can use unoptimized builds in stronger areas as well - while I don't necessarily agree that this should be possible, especially in Hard Mode, it has that to be said for it.

blue.rellik · Jan 03, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

I refuse to use it, and tbh I have no respect for those who do. Takes zero skill at all.

Echos my sentiments exactly. Same for Obsidian Flesh tank users and groups

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

If people dont use it, or never use it, why do they whine about it?

Point is, if you're are doing guardians and vanquishing, and you only get 1 or 2 more people - if you're lucky - in the party, Ursan becomes a good tool. If you run only with H/H, it is a necessary tool.

And people shouldn't be be loose throwing words around like "stupid". Im so tired of people projecting the image everyone is a noob and stupid except them.

Actually, if you dont use it or never use it, and you are whining from something you never have experience with, it just shows people are riding the whining bandwagon. I find it funny that people who have stopped playing guildwars still have opinions about guildwars. Move on, please.

My take.

You did not say that

the_jos · Jan 03, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Don't use it at all and most guildies don't use it (anymore) except when farming the elite areas with full team.
But it might be the only way to get my mesmer easy access to the elite areas

Washi · Jan 03, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

Washi:

Hayz. Never speak what you have never experience. I played URSAN H/H and there is a difference. I was able to solo H/H most tyria HM mission because of URSAN. And done them without URSAN.

Not to insult you, but that just proves my point, you don't know how to use your proffesion if a lonely ursan is better for you. Of course I tried it, as well as every other form, cause i like testing skills, builds etc, but I will never run it to beat something hard cause it is not effective for my style of play (1 or 2 players). It is easy to use, and powerful in a group, that's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimEye

Anyway. here is a question for you: how much nerfed you want Ursan to get? You want it so no one would use it again?

What Avarre said. Remove it. Not because it's powerful but because it makes people stop making builds. To me builds are the heart of GW, you cant use all your skills like in most RPG's you have to think which to choose. Ursan removes any need for preparation and battle awarness. It's a spam fest.